Day Of Reckoning: OPEN THREAD
by Texy
2007 December 13 at 10:26 am
We’re about 2 1/2 hours away from the Mitchell bombshell – and already reports are trickling out about who may or may not be on THE LIST. This will be our open thread for today- feel free to stop in and post your thoughts or rumors or whatever else you feel like. Cries of anguish, squeals of schadenfreude-listic glee… whatever.
Just about every credible news source is reporting that Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte will be on there- which is surprising to just about no one.
Deadspin got ahold of a “list” – whether or not it’s THE LIST is very debatable. It looks awful fishy. We’ll know soon enough, so in the meantime, here’s that list:
Manny Alexander, Brady Anderson, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Albert Belle, David Bell, Rafael Betancourt, Dante Bichette, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, Paul Byrd, Mike Cameron, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Ozzie Canseco, Ramon Castro, Roger Clemens, Wil Cordero, Paxton Crawford, Johnny Damon, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsworth, Ryan Franklin, Eric Gagne, Rich Garces, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jay Gibbons, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Jason Grimsley, Jose Guillen, Jerry Hairston, Clay Hensley, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Robert Machado, Mark McGwire, Raul Mondesi, Damian Moss, Guillermo Mota, Trot Nixon, Abraham Nunez, Jose Offerman, Rafael Palmiero, Neifi Perez, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Albert Pujols, Juan Rincon, Brian Roberts, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Alex Sanchez, Scott Schoenweis, David Segui, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Fernando Tatis, Julian Tavarez, Miguel Tejada, Ismael Valdez, Jason Varitek, Maurice Vaughn, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood
BREAKING: Here’s the report: http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf
Oh not Jason! *thud*
Now we get to play the game where we see how close this “list” matches up with the actual LIST.
Oh, and if they really go and name Darryl Kile in that report, that is really going to be the lowest of the low. Logically speaking, I know they need to give a complete and accurate report– but it would pain me to see them name a dead guy who can’t respond on his behalf.
Plus, I heart Darryl Kile and always have. So I admit I’m biased.
That actually sounds like a semi-legit list. However, that’s only a rumored list I believe? I’m so happy thought that I don’t have work now because I would be SO FREAKING UNPRODUCTIVE!
Only one person I ask to not be on there: David Ortiz. I would even be okay with Lowell and Manny but honestly if Papi is on that list, that will be a giant punch in teh groin for baseball.
I can’t handle this with Jason Varitek being on there. Seriously, I’m shaking I’m so upset just thinking about it. Texas Gal, what is your advice or coping with this nad loving him anyway?
I just saw this in my comments section as well. To me if it proves true that Tek is on their, I will be extremely disappointed. Also Nomar and Trot two of my other favorite ex-Sox players being on that list is a huge disappointment as well. My guess would be that the latter two used them to help their return from injuries.
But Tek being there kills me because he is the Captain of the Red Sox.
I actually had buterflies before I read this list..I can’t imagine how I will feel at 2:00. Thank goodness it is snowing here in CT and, being a teacher, am enjoying a snow day. I, too, would be quite unproductive today. TEK? Seriously? I am sick..actually have tears in my eyes. I have always looked at him as a pinnacle of integrity. I’m sickened. I’m hoping that the real list does not include him, but I guess I better brace myself. If it is, indeed, true..I’m not sure I will be able to recover from the blow. I preach to my students on a daily basis on the importance of honesty and integrity, especially when in any kind of leadership role. I’ve used Tek in so many examples of strong leadership. WOW…am I going to have to eat my words?
First of all, Caroline- don’t let yourself get too freaked out until the actual list comes out and we know the circumstances– and Jason has a chance to say what went on.
Second, one silver lining is that if there are 60-80 names in the Report, at least the focus won’t be solely on him.
Third, you are allowed to love a player in spite of his mistakes. Especially when he is a good person. People hate Barry Bonds because he’s an asshole- the fact that he did roids was just the cherry on top. You are allowed to be pissed at Jason for making a stupid decision, but then decide to go on ahead and love him anyway.
Finally, my advice then is to drink… heavily. Seasonal Christmas ales and microbrews are good this time of year.
Oh- and I should add that how these named players respond is going to be a huge part of how I decide to think of them going forward.
If they pull the old, lame McGwire-esque “I plead the fifth”, I’m going to be pissed.
If they own up to it, I’d actually be a lot more understanding.
sshark – There’s no crying in baseball.
I am on the shoreline in CT, it’s snowing good here.
Texy don’t forget the hard stuff too. If you’re cold, coffee and kahula will do the trick.
Already on it- I’ve got a nice happy glass of Jameson ready to go.
Apart from the thing where alcohol only affects me in negative ways, your advice is very good.
Ok.. seeingJasons name even on a rumored list is like a sledgehammer to the gut.
I dont wanna go to work…
I’m gonna agree with Tex here… how they respond is a big, big deal to me.
And honestly, someone can have used these and still be a person of great integrity.
I work in a hospital–its the same way you can drum up compassion for the drug dealers and users over and over… everyone has a reason for doing what they do, even if they made the wrong choice. Its how they treat others and move forward that matters.
I really respected how Big Papi said that he didn’t know about the “supplements” he had in the DR. He got crap for being ambiguous, but coming out and saying, look, I might have, even when he didn’t necessarily have to… that takes some courage.
You know what makes me feel better? Imagining a Papi bear hug, and playing the videos where he laughs, because his laugh is so wonderful.
Also booze. Maybe tea.
And I just got home from work… drive (and walk) safely, Bostonians, it isn’t deep necessarily but man, it is slippery.
BREAKING: Here’s the report: http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf
And I don’t see Jason Varitek or Nomar Garciaparra mentioned!
I’m confirming–Varitek’s not in it… (having run a search on his name in the pdf)
*hugs Margaret* thank you…
For whatever it’s worth, the MLB official site has a PDF copy of the actual report – and Tek’s name is nowhere in it. No, I did not read every page – it’s 409 pages, folks – but doing a quick search for Jason Varitek in the PDF came up with no matches. I have to say I’m relieved. I could handle just about any other player being named – except him.
Sent home from work early due to the snow…booze in hand…heart in throat.
Picturing Tek sitting on his porch on Halloween signing autographs for children.
the pdf is so darned long! Where, exactly, is the list of players?
From what I’ve seen thus far–
Commission–jerks
Player’s Association–jerks
MLB doctors–crazy infighting (actually, its kinda fun to read what they were saying to each other)
No Varitek, and surprise, my friend told me no Trot.
I’m a very very speedy reader, I’ll keep posting as I go on…
There’s no list – you have to search to find them.
It’s basically the guys we already knew (Giambi, Ankiel) and Clemens and Pettitte.
Clemens is on page 167…
Melissa, just saw your comment and it’s true! A search of the report shows it’s Varitek-free! Life can go on!
Mo Vaughn, page 186
Miguel Tejada, page 201
GAGNE, page 217
No Tek…I can breathe again.
Interesting–on page 219, on Gagne, when setting up the deal, Epstein specifically asked in an email about steroids, and they have the text of the answer…
Sorry to be posting lots of little ones–I hope I’m being helpful, let me know if its pestering you.
Brian Roberts
Mo Vaughn
Paul LoDuca
Miguel Tejada
Eric Gagne
David Justice
WHEW!!!!! So glad I don’t have to eat a lot of crow!!!
Any big surprises?
I just read the whole report and there is no TEK, no Nomar and No TROT on the list.
Gagne is on there which wasn’t a surprise to me at all.
You read the whole 409 page report? WOW – you’re a fast reader! ;)
Brendan Donnelly pg 224
Paul Byrd pg 245
Canseco pg 246
That’s all i see on the first read. They have Fedex mailing labels and check images and all that—pretty interesting.
Glad to see they came down hard on the Commission.
How is everyone doing?
Best List I could come up with right now(constantly being edited just in case I miss someone)
Lenny Dykstra, David Segui, Larry Bigbie, Brian Roberts, Jack Cust, Tim Laker, Josias Manzanillo, Todd Hundley, Mark Carreon, Hal Morris, Matt Franco, Rondell White, Roger Clemens, Andy Pettite, Chuck Knoblauch, Jason Grimsley, Gregg Zaun, David Justice, FP Santangelo, Glenallen Hill, Mo Vaughn, Denny Neagle, Ron Villone, Ryan Franklin, Chris Donnels, Todd Williams, Phil Hiatt, Todd Pratt, Kevin Young, Mike Lansing, Cody McKay, Kent Mercker, Adam Piatt, Miguel Tejada, Jason Christiansen, Mike Stanton, Stephen Randolph, Jerry Hairston Jr, Paul Lo Duca, Adam Riggs, Bart Miadich, Fernando Vina, Kevin Brown, Eric Gagne, Mike Bell, Matt Herges, Gary Bennett Jr, Jim Parque, Brendan Donnelly, Chad Allen, Jeff Williams, Howie Clark, Nook Logan, Daniel Naulty, Matt Karchner, Alex Cabrera, Ricky Bones, Rick Ankiel, David Bell, Paul Byrd, Jose Canseco, Jay Gibbons, Jose Guillen, Troy Glaus, Darren Holmes, Gary Matthews Jr, John Rocker, Scott Schowenweis, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams, Steve Woodard, Barry Bonds(duh), Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Marvin Bernard, Bobby Estalella, Benito Santiago, Randy Velarde, Paxton Crawford, Mike Spinelli
I was *hugely* relieved when I scanned and searched for my favorite Sox and didn’t see their names. I’m soooooo glad that Tek isn’t on the list.
I’m jealous of you who are home drinking! It’s lunch time here (thankfully, haven’t gotten a THING done).
I feel better now. I was sick all day thinking about the possibility of Tek being on there. Wore my shirt hoping for the best, so I feel like I can breathe now. Also happy that Trot and Nomar aren’t on there, ’cause I still like those guys.
So, my question is this: did Gagne suck this year WHILE ON ‘roids, or did he suck because he stopped using them?
WHEW!!! No Jason Varitek!!! The fact that he is built like a football player seems to be purely genetic!!!
Eric Gagne, Roger Clemens, Miguel Tejada…
Scanning…
Doesn’t look like there are any Sox players other than Gagne… and I don’t think he was ever exactly accepted as a Sox player…
This isn’t related to the list, but…
Congratulations Theo!
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/12/12/epsteins_wife_gives_birth_to_baby_boy/
The major current and former Sox I see:
Mo Vaughn
Brendan Donnelly
Eric Gagne
Roger Clemens (though I doubt he juiced in Boston)
Even if no charges or penalites are brought against existing or past offenders, this will forever be known as the “Juicing Generation” and even if no asterisks appear in the record books now, in 20, 30 or 100 years fans will argue that any records from this era are bogus because they were made at a time when doping was common.
Sad, but true. Any records from the mid-90’s until a couple of years ago.
Brendan Donelly? Hmmm…..
Congrats to Theo and Marie!!!!
I am speed reading right now. I did searches on the Red Sox players from the rumored list first.
Guys with Red Sox ties.
Manny Alexander, utility infielder, 2000
Jose Canseco, designated hitter, 1995-96
Roger Clemens, pitcher, 1984-96
Paxton Crawford, pitcher, 2000-01
Chris Donnels, infielder, 1995
Jeremy Giambi, designated hitter, 2003
Mike Lansing, infielder, 2000-01
Josias Manzanillo, pitcher, 1991
Kent Mercker, pitcher, 1999
Mike Spinelli, minor-league infielder in the 1990s
Mike Stanton, pitcher, 1995-96
Mo Vaughn, first base, 1991-98
Steve Woodard, pitcher, 2003
And did Piney get the list from site. LOL.
Also glad that Johnny Damon didn’t make the list. Even though he took the evil trip on Interstae 95 South to the Bronx, I always liked him.
What an anxiety filled day!
I think she probably just transcribed the list from the report – that’s what everyone has done. The list is up everywhere- I saw it at Deadspin and Bugs & Cranks first.
My favorite part has got to be George Mitchell constantly comparing this investigation to Northern Ireland.
And also how ESPN has five “headline” players that were named… and Gagne is one of them.
Also- I always forget about The Other Giambi. NotJason.
Wow, Ian, you are a fast reader!!
Northern Ireland… absentmindedly sings shipping up to boston
Yes- because this stupid steroids witch hunt and a centuries-old religious and political war have a lot in common.
Also: someone commented that “Northern Ireland was easier than this”. I about blew a gasket.
Also: Ian is like our roving, on-the-scene reporter. Thank goodness- I’m not near coherent enough to parse through that document, beyond laughing at Grimsley’s stupid-looking checks.
I feel terrible for guys like Brian Roberts, who are basically in this article completely on the grounds of hearsay. Someone said that he used steroids one time, and there’s no corroboration. Sure, he could’ve talked to Mitchell and responded, but it’s an awfully awkward position to be in, because you do not want to be in the position of tattling.
The MLB Players’ Association put out a memo to all players basically telling them not to cooperate. Which, as much as it sucks to tattle, is still a really skeevy thing for the PA to do.