TG--

What's your prediction here? What do you think will happen?

And is there any tidbit you can give me that will make me feel better about this deal, in any of the proposed forms? I've got that sixth sense that this could be a very bad idea... Help me out!

I wish they would just mark Jacoby and Lester off limits all together. There's no reason to give them up for Santana.

I have been horrid at predicting this Santana deal, almost from the word go. I initially thought, despite that Theo said there were no untouchables, there was no way he'd offer up Jacoby. But I think Theo knew exactly what he was doing- building up from nothing to Lester to finally offering Jacoby, not starting out with his best deal so he had something to counter with later.

I'm of two minds on this deal. One, obviously, he's our own homegrown talent, was a tremendous sparkplug for us late in the season, and delivered in the playoffs. He's fast- but more than that, he's smart. His defense is great, and I think he'd learn how to play the Monster like a champ. His bat is good- but I doubt he'll ever mature into a power hitter, more a slap-and-run type that legs singles out into doubles and doubles out into triples.

Even with all that, though... he's still unproven. His MLB experience is slim - not his fault, but that's the truth. And it's Johan Santana. JOHAN SANTANA. Most clubs would kill to get one ace in their rotation... can you imagine if we had TWO?!!? And that's not even taking Dice-K and Schilling into account. We would ROLL over opponents with Beckett-Santana. And at the same time, we'd be keeping him out of the Bronx- the importance of which cannot be overstated.

Ultimately, I'll be happy and disappointed whichever way this trade goes.

this is a hard call for me, one article i read said santana is unfazed by all this and he could still end up staying in minnesota...i don't want to see jacoby go either... its such a hard call...i'd rather santana stays in minnesota this year and the sox go all out next year to get him...but there's always the yankees to consider....either way we lose and win as sox fans...

The Twins really want to get something done since all they will get from Santana walking next year are two draft picks, who will require a few years of development and may turn out to be shitty anyways...a trade now= MLB ready people to fill some big gaps they have.

A Cy Young pitcher in his prime is almost always more valuable than any single position player. Plus if Buch ends up being as good as his first few games indicate, a possible '09 rotation of Beckett/Santana/Dice-K/Buchholz/Lester would be fucking amazing. And we'd probably still have Wake. So, either way, it's a win/win for the Sox. Theo knows what he's doing...

As they say, pitching wins championships.

And what about this: what if we could then turn around and package Lester in a deal to Texas for Saltalamacchia? Then we get a bat PLUS we have a first-rate catcher who can be groomed to replace Varitek. We'd have Beckett/Santana/Dice-K/Schilling/Buchholz + Wakefield as a kicker and Tavarez as an extra backup.

You know what else wins championships? The Red Sox win championships. (Sorry, That had to be said...it still looks good and I may never get tired of seeing that. :)

I would love to get Salty...Tek will most likely be gone after next year unless he signs a Schilling-like deal (if he keeps Boras as his agent, I aint gonna hold my breath for that) and they really should try and have him mentor someone this season so they can take over...plus someone with a bat would be a HUGE bonus. I don't think Texas would let Salty go easily though...he was a big cog in the Teixieria deal. And there's reports today that Texas is interested in Coco...if the Santana deal falls though, I can definitely see this happening. If Ells goes and we need Coco, then I'm not so sure they could get it done, even with Lester depending on exactly who else is on the table w/ Ells right now.

And I'm not sure on this, but if Gagne were to accept arb, could we then use him in trades prior to the arb hearings? I really don't know on that...but if they could, maybe the Rangers would want him back and he could somehow be included haha.

I definatly am no a fan of including Jacoby over Lester in this deal. I beleive we had the best offer when it was just Lester et all even over Hughes et all. Whiel Hughes MIGHT be > Lester, Crisp > Melky, Masterson/Bowden + Lowrie >> anythign Yanks would give up.

You know what? Screw it. I hope the Twins KEEP Santana for the season. I hope NO trade happens. Then we can just tyr and outbid the god damn Yanks in the 08 postseason

I do NOT want to lose Jacoby

We can't lose Jacoby. The Sox fans will go after Theo. Can't they give away Gagne, better known as Gag-me?

Please, Theo, nononononononononononononononononononono!

Amen to Dionysus--BILL SMITH, KEEP YOUR FUCKING PITCHER. We can get him for '09. That way, we keep Jacoby and Lester and maybe trade Coco and still get a winsome '09 rotation even after Schilling retires (plus, maybe, Wakefield).

Do we really need Santana that badly? Honestly?

-fuck.

See, this is SO why I couldn't be a GM! Putting prospects and probables, and already provens (men I've grown to respect and admire) into a complex trade. Peter Gammons warns that adding Santana to the clubhouse could really PISS Beckett off(moneywise and all that).

Ah, is that a bad thing?

mistake mistake mistake

But if it happens...I hope I'm wrong.

OK, now im readign reports that the SOx have NOT offered up Jacoby. WTF is going on?

not.worth.it.

and that's all I have left to say in the matter.

::::: clings to jacoby :::::

Salty = yes, plz.

I don't know. It would be amazing to have Santana, but I don't want to give up Ellsbury. My Yankees fan friend doesn't want to give up Hughes. We were talking today about how weird it is that we're both basically saying no thanks to maybe the best pitcher in baseball. But we agreed we don't want each other's teams to get him, either.

Jacobyyyyy. Man.

If they make the trade, Paps better not learn about this. http://www.tc.umn.edu/~kurtis/flash/xmasgame/

The Globe and the Herald are still reporting Jacoby is available for trade.

I think the Yankees' "deadline" is worthless. They said they wouldn't negotiate with A-Rod, they did. They said they wouldn't offer Hughes, they did. Now they say there's a deadline... yeah right. As if the Sox negotiations fall apart, and the Twins come back to them later, that they'd ever say no.

Little Steinbrenner is doing a horrid job so far.

And great link, mermaidmarian!

Perhaps it's sheer sentimentality...but I really don't want to lose Lester. I know Santana is awesome, and I know he's won two Cy Young awards and I know that they're saying that whichever team that gets Santana will also get the World Series win, and I KNOW that a one-two Beckett/Santana punch would be incredible.

But we seemed to do just fine and dandy without Santana in 2007. We seemed to have what I recall being an 10+ lead in the AL over the Yankees without him.

Also, in 2007, DiceK was getting used to the USA style of baseball, Jon Lester was still recovering, and Clay Buchholz wasn't around. I think, now that DiceK is settled in, Jon is bulking up, and Clay has the entire offseason to get into the best shape he's ever been in [and hopefully gain some weight!!!] that we'll have a pretty strong pitching staff...without Santana.

So, what I'm trying to say is...

Dear Tito,

Please, please, please, PLEASE do not trade Ellsbury, Lester OR Buchholz for Santana. We'll survive without him.

Much love,
~ Me

Here's what it all comes down to, for me: as long as Santana is not on the Yankees, I will not be upset if we don't get him.

BUT- Santana told the Twins yesterday that he absolutely will NOT waive his no-trade clause during the season next year- so the Twins no longer have an incentive to keep him around. They will deal him. And since, as of right now, he can only go to the Sox or the Yanks... I'd prefer that he be on the Sox.

It's not that I don't think we couldn't do well again next year, just like we did this year-- but we also didn't have to battle a Yankees team with Santana on the roster. And we didn't clinch our pennant until very nearly the last possible moment... and that was without Santana.

We don't need Santana. But I don't want him in the Bronx.

When it comes down to it, the basics are that Ellsbury isn't worth Santana on his own, but he definitely is worth a lot; but don't trade him, we need him; and don't let Santana end up with the Yankees.

And I do agree, Texy, that we did do really well--what am I saying, we won!--without Santana this year. And next year (this is assuming the trade somehow does not happen, whether Santana's in the Bronx or not) we'll have the benefit of Jacoby starting in center field and Lester/Buchholz available to pitch a lot more innings. Although it will suck if he's with the Yankees, especially because Pettitte just announced he's returning next year. This might be good--their young, talented guys don't get out as much. Hopefully.

Timlin is signed! That's a good thing.

We don't need Santana. But I don't want him in the Bronx.
That's the bottom line. I don't want to see Ells go, but would hate to have Santana go to the Dark Side.

I think the biggest advantage to signing Santana is 2009 and beyond for the post-Wake and post-Schill rotation.